Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

i still use symbolism, but strictly for tulpamancy

Usually the symbolism helps be focus in on what my body is feeling. Usually I'm not really aware of what's going on in my body and the symbolism draws attention to it. I'm aware of some of my body's cues, but I think it's just as good as the symbolism. Usually the body cues and the symbolism are consistent

Usually when the wonderland breaks the first thing I do is drink more water, eat food, chill and watch YouTube

so you distract yourself from the wonderland

2:53 PM

and that happens to help you calm down

Isn't it just more efficient to rely on direct source of information than to rely on symbolism wrapped around it? If you don't visit your WL for a while, you might not notice it's falling apart and by extension your dehydration

that actually is something you would expect from what i was talking about. if you associate symbolism with anxiety, not using symbolism and distracting yourself from the symbolism makes you calmer (edited)

2:56 PM

and it correlates with what my experience was

2:58 PM

it's a bit like listening to sad music. you might listen to it because it resonates with what you feel. but with time, even when you are not sad, when you listen to it, you become sad, and you feel it resonates with what you are feeling, because it makes you feel sad. solution to that is not to listen to the music, otherwise you let music decide what you feel

2:58 PM

When the wonderland breaks I'm usually having a hard time talking to my headmates and focusing on visualizations. I also have a harder time with intrusive thoughts. I see this as a symptom of long-term anxiety, not anxiety I'm having in the moment. Wonderland breaks can be out of the blue, but they usually happen if I have been stressed for awhile. I don't think it's a good idea to engage with the symbolism. Fighting the intrusive thoughts or trying to fix broken wonderland equipment doesn't fix the problem. Fixing wonderland stuff is more of a gesture to wanting to heal. I definitely don't go out of my way to break my wonderland, and I know that doing stuff to the symbolism doesn't fix the problem.

"I see this as a symptom of long-term anxiety, not anxiety I'm having in the moment. " can you see how this relates to what i'm talking about?

I get the sense you're saying I should disregard my symbolism and I don't want too. I get that thinking about bad symbolism can bum you out, but I don't want to use symbolism to process my problems. The symbolism is helpful for identifying what my feelings are. I'm sorry you had bad experiences with symbolism and I appreciate your advice, but it's either not a good fit for me or I'm not ready for it yet.

i'm not saying you should disregard, i'm saying it can be harmful and from what you are saying i might be right

3:08 PM

i said that: -symbolism can cause you anxiety rather than tell you you feel it and you won't be able to tell what causes what -solution to that is stay away from symbolism you said that: -you experience symbolism representing anxiety when you are in wonderland, and you feel anxiety at the same time -to help yourself, you distract yourself from symbolism, with good results (edited)

3:09 PM

something to think about

3:09 PM

anyway, i need to go back to work

jupiter

My first day with my tulpa Today was a jam filled day so I didn't have that much time to spend with my tulpa but I did have some. I spent 15 minutes talking to my Tulpa (which I named gregory) and just talked about anything from my interests,to if I like cats or dogs, my zodiac sign, etc. etc. In the middle of our conversation felt a bit lightheaded but I thought not too much of it. Also I remember saying "SO guess what happened today?" and I heard a voice saying"What? WHAT? TELL ME PLEASE!!!". That was all I heard though from our conversation. At the end of our convo I seen gregory as a yellow ball instead of the human form I gave him. One thing I do have to mention is that I had a lot of trouble imaging gregory's face. It was a bit of a struggle to keep the same face maintained during the whole convo but I tried my best. After our convo a little while later I had to take a bath. While I was getting my clothes I heard somebody humming to my right. But when I looked the humming stopped. When I was in the bathroom I heard someone say "So Grace you're in the bathroom right?". Last thing I heard was while in the middle of my bath I heard "Who is this Inazuma person?" (Btw Inazuma is a nation in genshin impact. A game I really like. ) After I got out the tub and gotten dressed I had the slight pain on my left side of my head. While I am writing this I still feel it. Idk if it's a headache or just some random pain but it feels like a weight on the left side of my head. Idk if the voices I heard was accidently parroting or gregory talking but hopefully tomorrow I can spend more time with him the 15 minutes. I was thinking 30 minutes or an hour hopefully. But anygays that's my first day. See ya.

Day 2 | Online Diary | Gregory's Creation TODAY WAS AMAZING BRO. So I started by saying good morning to Gregory and then I did the usual. Brush my teeth, eat breakfast, take a shower, etc., etc. Today was the day when people were going to come to change the carpet so we had to 1. move everything & 2. clean everything. So while I was cleaning I heard Gergory say, "Hey Grace look at me." I didn't know what he exactly meant so I thought he meant the place I was imagining him at. I looked that way, smiled, and said "Hey Gregory!" I continued cleaning. He didn't say anything after that. Another thing I noticed was that I was saying plural pronouns more often than singular pronouns. Once I was done with school I talked with Gregory for about 50 minutes. I rambled on about the stuff I liked and franchises I like too. During the conversation, I tried to reassure him that whatever time he needs to speak or talk to me I'll be here waiting. I don't have any expectations for him whatsoever and I'm just here to become friends. That I understand that to become somebody's friend it takes trust and trust takes time so I'm going to be here 24/7. Afterwards we watched a youtube video together of one of my favorite YouTubers. I realized that today was the day I going to dance and I was excited since this was the first time I and Gregory went outside together. Once we got in the car I talked to him about the area around us and even introduced Gregory to my mom. Though I called him an "imaginary friend" then a tulpa so it can be simpler for her to understand it. We also got a sandwich at Starbucks which was also the first time we ever ate out together :D part 1

jupiter

Day 2 | Online Diary | Gregory's Creation TODAY WAS AMAZING BRO. So I started by saying good morning to Gregory and then I did the usual. Brush my teeth, eat breakfast, take a shower, etc., etc. Today was the day when people were going to come to change the carpet so we had to 1. move everything & 2. clean everything. So while I was cleaning I heard Gergory say, "Hey Grace look at me." I didn't know what he exactly meant so I thought he meant the place I was imagining him at. I looked that way, smiled, and said "Hey Gregory!" I continued cleaning. He didn't say anything after that. Another thing I noticed was that I was saying plural pronouns more often than singular pronouns. Once I was done with school I talked with Gregory for about 50 minutes. I rambled on about the stuff I liked and franchises I like too. During the conversation, I tried to reassure him that whatever time he needs to speak or talk to me I'll be here waiting. I don't have any expectations for him whatsoever and I'm just here to become friends. That I understand that to become somebody's friend it takes trust and trust takes time so I'm going to be here 24/7. Afterwards we watched a youtube video together of one of my favorite YouTubers. I realized that today was the day I going to dance and I was excited since this was the first time I and Gregory went outside together. Once we got in the car I talked to him about the area around us and even introduced Gregory to my mom. Though I called him an "imaginary friend" then a tulpa so it can be simpler for her to understand it. We also got a sandwich at Starbucks which was also the first time we ever ate out together :D part 1

I finished dance and we were driving home until I just randomly thought of a bunny-ear headband. I thought it was Gregory so I put a bunny-ear headband on him. Then I imagined a cat-ear headband and put that one on instead. Once we got home I took my bath but before I got in the bathtub Gregory said, "Thank you, Grace". I said, "Your welcome Gregory, but what exactly are you thanking me for?" No response. Once I finished I asked Gregory again what was he thanking me for and he said "For everything. Thank you, Grace really I mean it." and I said, "Your welcome Gregory I really appreciated you." Then I realized. THAT WAS OUR FIRST CONVERSATION WITH VOICE OMG OMG OMG IM SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW AYAYYAYAYAYYAYAYY BIG PROGRESS WOOOOOOOOO. Anygays That's the report for day 2. See you tomorrow! part 2

jupiter

I finished dance and we were driving home until I just randomly thought of a bunny-ear headband. I thought it was Gregory so I put a bunny-ear headband on him. Then I imagined a cat-ear headband and put that one on instead. Once we got home I took my bath but before I got in the bathtub Gregory said, "Thank you, Grace". I said, "Your welcome Gregory, but what exactly are you thanking me for?" No response. Once I finished I asked Gregory again what was he thanking me for and he said "For everything. Thank you, Grace really I mean it." and I said, "Your welcome Gregory I really appreciated you." Then I realized. THAT WAS OUR FIRST CONVERSATION WITH VOICE OMG OMG OMG IM SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW AYAYYAYAYAYYAYAYY BIG PROGRESS WOOOOOOOOO. Anygays That's the report for day 2. See you tomorrow! part 2

Ayyyy nice congrats on the progress'

I finished dance and we were driving home until I just randomly thought of a bunny-ear headband. I thought it was Gregory so I put a bunny-ear headband on him. Then I imagined a cat-ear headband and put that one on instead. Once we got home I took my bath but before I got in the bathtub Gregory said, "Thank you, Grace". I said, "Your welcome Gregory, but what exactly are you thanking me for?" No response. Once I finished I asked Gregory again what was he thanking me for and he said "For everything. Thank you, Grace really I mean it." and I said, "Your welcome Gregory I really appreciated you." Then I realized. THAT WAS OUR FIRST CONVERSATION WITH VOICE OMG OMG OMG IM SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW AYAYYAYAYAYYAYAYY BIG PROGRESS WOOOOOOOOO. Anygays That's the report for day 2. See you tomorrow! part 2

@jupiter - jump Congratulations, it'll only get more interesting from here.

I wish there was a dictionary for plural terminology, it would make understanding things much easier.

The problem with a dictionary on plural terms is each term can have multiple meanings For example, "integration" can mean becoming one entity, a synonym for fusing, or tearing down amnesia barriers (edited)

Most words have multiple meanings, any good dictionary offers multiple definitions for a single word

jupiter

I finished dance and we were driving home until I just randomly thought of a bunny-ear headband. I thought it was Gregory so I put a bunny-ear headband on him. Then I imagined a cat-ear headband and put that one on instead. Once we got home I took my bath but before I got in the bathtub Gregory said, "Thank you, Grace". I said, "Your welcome Gregory, but what exactly are you thanking me for?" No response. Once I finished I asked Gregory again what was he thanking me for and he said "For everything. Thank you, Grace really I mean it." and I said, "Your welcome Gregory I really appreciated you." Then I realized. THAT WAS OUR FIRST CONVERSATION WITH VOICE OMG OMG OMG IM SO HAPPY RIGHT NOW AYAYYAYAYAYYAYAYY BIG PROGRESS WOOOOOOOOO. Anygays That's the report for day 2. See you tomorrow! part 2

Day 3 | Online Diary | Grayson's Creation So today was really interesting! (Btw the reason why I use they/them pronouns for Grayson and say Grayson instead of Gregory is that they wanted to change it) I start out the day as usual. Do my morning routine. While I was putting away the dishes I heard Grayson say something. They said, "So what's your age?". I responded with, " 15. I told you when we first talked remember?" "Oh, yea I forgot. I'm 13 btw" "Oh that's cool" Then it hit me. I didn't give Grayson an age. I wasn't even thinking about age when I created Grayson. I was so happy Grayson found their age. While I was soaking in my happiness Grayson spoke again. " So wanna build a wonderland? I'm just sitting here in this empty void. " I actually completely forgot about the wonderland part of tulpas. I just basically forgot all the details necessary to even create a tulpa system. I told him that I'm not ready right now physically and probably not mentally either. Later on, we decided we will build it together tomorrow. Throughout the day Grayson kept on asking me if I felt okay or if I feeling sick or upset or is anything wrong. Which I accrepiated his random checkups on me it made me feel nice. The rest of the day was pretty much irrevanlant I mostly did school work, got stressed out a bunch of times, took a bunch of breaks, and took a nap in the middle of school. (part 1)

3:11 AM

Near the end of the day I was watching youtube videos and Grayson asked me if I would make content about them in the near future. I said maybe. Mostly it was just going to be my experience with making a tulpa and maybe some gifts here or there and some minor appearances but nothing major and big. They told me they aren't really comfortable with the internet right now and I post anything with them in it that I should post very little of it. I understood Grayson and told them that I wouldn't share too much about them. I asked if it was fine if I make diary entries and they told me it was fine. Afterwards Grayson told me how they were also having struggles with their gender identity at the moment and asked for help with it. I tried helping with listing some gender identities and listing their meanings but I told Grayson gender is a journey that you have to mainly go on your own and that I'll try to help the best I can. Grayson said they would like to try they/them at the moment and use Grayson instead of Gregory. They also said maybe they could use animal neopronouns in the future. So yea that's the 3rd day. SO since we are to this point I think Grayson is sentient now (still questioning a bit) I will only upload diary entries whenever something big happens with me and my tulpa system instead of uploading every day. Thanks for coming on this journey with me. See you next time :D (part 2)

I made the mistake of thinking, "He's, like, five days old, he's basically sentient now, right?" KEEP JOURNALLING! Keep at it! Think about the difference between a three day old seedling and a four month old sapling and a two year old tree and a twenty year old tree! The growth is not done, it's hardly even started, EVEN though a three day old seedling might be five times the size it was on day one!

So... I've done switching, played video games a bit. I've tried wonderland a bit but I have a heard time with that stuff for very specific reasons and prefer doing stuff in the flesh. What's some other fun stuff you can do with your tulpa?

3:38 AM

She says hi to this group btw

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PL8hGyNh1JsdOtbfmBpLa0eeb3_4ukQHB1qSAhe_HDk/mobilebasic?pli=1

4:05 AM

Just found this actually

check pins if you haven't

Like this is such a stupid question that I'm pretty sure the answer is no but like I'm curious what kind of no or no HOW so: So with like, learned negative responses, not like trauma level stuff but just like anxiety and aversions from prior experiences, is it possible to like accidentally/unintentionally dump those on a different headmate, even one that wasn't really fronting/much, at the time? I mean, I'm pretty sure whatever is up here isn't really even a plural related thing anyway but I dunno, just curious I guess, lol

The way you worded that was uncharacteristically not okay. Y'allright there brah? But to answer your question, probably. Anything that's ingrained into reflex has a pretty solid chance of blending into a headmate I reckon.

Uncharacteristically not okay? What do you mean?

You used a lot of "likes" in there like a teenager trying to convey something they were uncomfortable about.

12:36 AM

I'unno, rubbed me the wrong way.

12:37 AM

That and it's a question about something that may or may not have the capacity to make people insecure about their identities and so forth.

If this brain is worried about something, it's hard to compartmentalize away really

12:40 AM

Next fronter is going to end up worrying about the same thing

Ahhh, sorry about that I mean, it probably would for some yeah.

Not really worried about that part here, lol. Just more worried about some sort of long term repercussions. Feels suspiciously like bottling something up, but more of the outcomes than the thing itself?

Mmm do you mean dumping those on a headmate and then not embodying them yourself?

12:41 AM

I think I have done this before, specifically with m'boi Mika.

12:42 AM

And yes, not super great as a practice.

Nah, I mean like. It feels like, and it's hard to be sure cause like didn't really track this closely and Lily's more of a anxious and overthinking bean to begin with but it seemed like she coulda picked up like an aversion to or anxiety about something she wasn't even around for and the one that was doesn't have that reaction? I doubt I'm making much sense

Zen

I think I have done this before, specifically with m'boi Mika.

Yeah, closer to that I think

12:43 AM

But like, not on purpose is the weird part

(edited)

12:43 AM

I know people have tried to do stuff like that

We noticed we started to sort of embody "one of us is the actual reasonable person today, and the other person is just going to reactively pick apart that other person" with Mika; We've done it once or twice with Rhys too, but it was so uncharacteristic for them that it was jarring and more easily sidestepped. I suspect I may be a glutton for debate, even with myself.

I'm more surprised you're asking a "is it possible to [thing that already happened to us]?" question

Maybe this manifests similarly but differently with yourself?

12:46 AM

S'all expectation I think. There's not really any limits on what you can do.

12:46 AM

Even if the result is shit and needs to be curtailed.

Yuka

I'm more surprised you're asking a "is it possible to [thing that already happened to us]?" question

Well I'm guessing I'm probably most likely just mistaken about what is going on

Zen

S'all expectation I think. There's not really any limits on what you can do.

Yeah, sounds about right probably. I'm guessing the like prior experiences/memory whatever is just there and tendencies and beliefs or whatever mean like, different reactions or whatever to similar stuff happening in the future

Nah, I mean like. It feels like, and it's hard to be sure cause like didn't really track this closely and Lily's more of a anxious and overthinking bean to begin with but it seemed like she coulda picked up like an aversion to or anxiety about something she wasn't even around for and the one that was doesn't have that reaction? I doubt I'm making much sense

@vixiUwU - jump What does Lily say? Maybe she needs to process whatever it is

She probably does. At this point that's kind of reserved for right before bed but probably not really going about it the most effective way and that seems like probably not the best time other than, it's the one time we don't have stuff that needs doing or need to keep it together or whatever. There's definitely some masking-adjacent kinda aspects to it, probably I guess, but not quite, but more inward than outward

vixiUwU

Like this is such a stupid question that I'm pretty sure the answer is no but like I'm curious what kind of no or no HOW so: So with like, learned negative responses, not like trauma level stuff but just like anxiety and aversions from prior experiences, is it possible to like accidentally/unintentionally dump those on a different headmate, even one that wasn't really fronting/much, at the time? I mean, I'm pretty sure whatever is up here isn't really even a plural related thing anyway but I dunno, just curious I guess, lol

Yes and the most common way this ends up happening is when a tulpa switches when they're too young

3:12 AM

The most simple way to protect any special attributes a young tulpa has (notably, being free from certain anxieties etc of the host) is to NOT have them immediately start switching or acting as host, because unless they specifically learn different responses, they are only free from developing those necrotic spots in their personality because they haven't been personally in those situations

3:13 AM

It's a mistake to go, "This tulpa is free from this neurosis or anxiety of mine, so I should try to get them to take over this part of my life" because they will inevitably start succumbing to the same damn thing- it's much much better, in most situations, to keep them as a neutral, distanced party who can provide you with moral support and an more objective, not anxiety-riddled viewpoint

3:14 AM

Sometimes it does happen randomly (that a tulpa would develop a neurosis or anxiety), probably just from witnessing the host's experience or even thoughts Sometimes more so than being beat oneself, it fucks kids up simply to witness violence in the family- same kinda thing applies to tulpas. It's a big mistake to think, "Because they don't deal with this situation directly, they should be happy/carefree/neurosis-free"

3:15 AM

A big part of Cassidy growing older has been, in fact, realizing how he himself has to deal with the effects of things that happened before he was alive

3:15 AM

But the interesting part is that it's not just stuff that happened only to me- Gavin was around for most of it.

3:16 AM

For him, it's kinda just like the circumstances of his birth, or a family past.

3:19 AM

Sometimes we notice, and I have noticed as a broader pattern in the community, is that many tulpas may be able to resist those draws for shorter periods of time, but the second they take "host duties", they will be hit head-first with the same neurosis of the host. The exception is very developed and concrete headmates. And that's part of why it matters that a tulpa is more than a LARP and that their identity is rooted in reality rather than suspension of disbelief. It's one thing to simply say you're kind or smart, it's another thing to actually posses those traits in any way. Most tulpas are very weak in many ways identity-wise, and you can't expect much different from someone who's literally not been alive that long. You can see the difference though, if you meet some tulpas who are like, 7+ years old and compare them to 1-3 year olds.

3:19 AM

"Development" really is something that takes place on a scale of years to decades, not minutes to hours or a few weeks tops- if you want an actual concrete tulpa, that is, not just a playtoy. But that's not everyone's goal /shrug

3:20 AM

The result of a development like that would be things like resistance to absorbing the host's neurosis upon using the body for extended periods of time

3:20 AM

Or just in general honestly It's pretty much par for the course to find tulpas having the same issues as their hosts, they're kinda like mind twins

3:21 AM

Think of how many things identical twins might have in common, and then think that you're a thousand times closer to your tulpa than that

Yeah but in this case it seems like Lily might have gotten anxiety about something that didn't even happen to her, but did happen to me, but I don't have the hang up about it. Or maybe with Scarlet and her but in that case they're a little more likely to just both pick it up. It's possible, probable that's not even what's going on. Maybe they're anxieties or whatever that she already has and were just forgotten/resurfaced

Ok Zen so that is essentially what I'm asking about, I don't mean technicals, I mean how can I make it so that they are so self sufficient in thought that I could vanish tomorrow and all of them would continue to do things like any other person. I'm semi confident that if I vanished Shade could continue without me, being able to run herself without my input but the others would just shut down forever. I want them to be exactly as self sufficient as me being able to think and do things without another person to push them along, I know that's probably impossible but I want to try anyways

Why does Shade not speak to them in your absence? Or to each other?

10:51 PM

Presuming they have the ability to remain around, if they are not yet ingrained in reflex, it falls to them.

10:52 PM

It stands though that what makes tupper sticky in the conscious space is repetition and becoming automatic in their responses to the world.

That's a possibility we've considered, we want outside opinions though, our current plan would be to make us react to eachother to the point we keep ourselves going indefinitely.

When I was still a three-person system, we set aside time for each of us to interact with one another individually and together, perhaps that kind of scheduling would help?

10:57 PM

Don't get too attached to it, and upset if it doesn't line up too well though.

10:57 PM

People need rest.

Thats something I've been working on, constant training and progress, with time to sleep of course, I don't mind them being inactive, I just want them to be able to live lives without me having to metaphorically stand next to them

Maybe the way I managed it could be adapted by you. My oldest and strongest tulpa became my equal after she fronted for an entire week. How we did it was, we decided she would front for the whole week, and whenever I noticed I was accidentally fronting (which happened a few times, since I'm the host and was therefore the 'default' fronter) I would politely switch with her and let her continue. She managed all the things I would usually do that week, pretending to be me as necessary. By the end of the week, we were co-default fronters, and have been ever since :]

11:00 PM

I see it as forming a new habit.

we'll see about trying that, thanks :)

Best of luck :] I'd be interested to read about how you get along with this, what you try, and what works, if you're willing to share.

11:02 PM

This sort of thing fascinates me.

of course, we enjoy sharing our experiments and achievements

Rogue tulpa tip: If you don't let your host practice presence imposition, you can sneak up on them.

Delete this tip, please. Disembodied brain-pals are enough of a handful without forbidden techniques like this.

I will take this tip to heart

I'm doomed, aren't I?

yup

Embattled host tip: Guerrilla warfare is perfectly valid. Remember, you're on home turf.

I imagined every possibility of where she would come from, only for her to literally phase out of my chest

11:22 PM

Who thinks of that?

Outsmarted by your own brain. In a way, it's comforting.

I am become chestburster, scarer of hosts

Outnumbered host tip: Try your best to claim every good idea as your own (even indirectly) in order to maintain self-esteem.

️ulpa Tip: Noclip into your boyfriend instead of hugging him

Do not do that-

️ulpa Tip: Noclip into your boyfriend instead of hugging him

@leviine - jump have done, that accidentally achieved fusion, please help

Sometimes when I'm watching a movie with Shade, I'll have to move into a position that clips through her imposed form, and I always get an indignant squawk from her that's adorable